Oh, didn't know that. I'd bet with some cajoling you UK Noir fans could get Eddie to put a festival together. He's really enjoying his role as the Czar of Noir and doing a swell job elaborating this great cinematic movement. I need to order the new edition of Dark City Dames that just came out. His You Tube show put me on to a two volume set called The Dark Page: Books That Inspired American Film Noir by Kevin Johnson. Beautiful coffee-table sized volumes, profusely illustrated, and printed & bound in very high quality editions. You can get them nearly half - off directly from Oak Knoll Press. You will not be disappointed! But Eddie is a great ambassador for this dark fetish we all share. I'll bet with a good cinema signing on, some passionate scholar/fans supporting, and promise of good food & drink - - you'd have Noir City in the UK with Eddie doing the honors!
Clash by Night just played this week on TCM in a string of Stanwyck films. It's better than I remembered! And yeah... That volcanic kiss! But I think you are working a very astute analysis here about the distinction between Noir and Melodrama. A few shadows, moments of crisis, reckless sex, and even lives unraveled do not transform a Melodrama into a Noir. Films like Daisy Kenyon are commonly called Noir (and is even included in the old Fox Film Noir series) but they aren't Noir. The Noir City Festival in Hollywood just opened with Road House (1948) and after an hour I was wondering "When does the Noir start?" Ok, Ida Lupino is a broken-down, Chesterfield-huffing chanteuse, and Richard Widmark does his psychopathic hyena laugh - - but is THAT Noir? As you point out, there are trappings of Noir (cast, director, cameraman) but it's not really the fully-dysphoric stew of doom that is the authentic repast of Noir. It's Campbell's Chicken Noodle and not Canter's Deli Matzoh Ball soup. It's Noir - Light-adjacent-maybe-sorta.
Clash by Night, for me, is not Noir, but you make about as good a case as could be made! It's a tawdry story of mixed-up outcasts making reckless choices - - but once the fever breaks it's just a Melodrama. "Storm Warning" takes place outdoors on fishing boats, and it's a Melodrama, too, but edges into Noir because innocents are dragged into the criminal mind and world, and are deeply compromised, terrorized, & imperiled. Boundaries blur. Souls get lost or nearly lost. It's not just hot, ill-advised adultery, it's incestuous adultery that is involved. Boundaries blur and burn. That's a lot closer to Noir.
I like the implication that Jerry is the real loser in Clash by Night. The truly good guy, frequently taken advantage of by local parasites, who gets slimed by Mae and Earl; as a result his truly latent but slowly -roiling rage explodes. He's the most Noir character and biggest loser in the film! Mae (serial adulterer) and Earl (stanky misogynist) are just horny and disaffected enough to cause trouble,but not Noir-level trouble. Mae's lost years in the big city could have made a great flashback and got us more into Noir territory but as you say, that ain't the story we got. Evocative (as usual) look at Mae and this very engaging film. And yeah... That jungle kiss!
Yeah, I think people like to think that anything that vaguely resembles film noir must be a film noir, whereas a lot of the time, that's not the case. For instance, I consider Night of the Hunter to be a horror movie. Same goes for The Spiral Staircase or Cat People. But both of them are regularly featured in noir articles, discussions etc. The debate about Casablanca is still going strong, even though it is certainly not a film noir. Noir's undefinability (is that a word?) makes it easy for people to make a case for pretty much any film.
P.S. You went to the Noir Festival! I'm so jealous haha one day!
Thanks so much for responding. I got into Noir proper in 1981/82 when it was a class in the film department at Cal Street University Northridge taught by Dr John Schulteiss. He did some work on Abraham Polonsky. But it was very nerdy. There were like 3 books and any articles in film journals had to get copied via microfiche! Schulteiss had his own 16mm collection. He screened Canon City and got Scott Brady to come to the class! It was not a hot topic but gradually became one into to 80s & 90s, as it got highlighted by big directors and there were homages and remakes, etc. Many books came out. Then Neo-Noir became a thing...Festivals were popping up. Film Noir became monetized. So they needed more movies to call "Film Noir" and the term became rather elastic and stretchy... I do think there are costume noirs and western noirs, but many melodramas are not noirs,as we've said. Anyway that's my theory!
The festival was great! I didn't go to a bunch because I've seen them on-screen already and it's 20 bucks per movie + 20 for parking. Plus food. Easy to spend a lot. But I saw opening night with Road House (not a noir), The Last Seduction (Peter Berg + John Dall Q&A!), The Grifters (Annette Bening Q&A!), and Dead Reckoning. The print for Last Seduction was only fair and for The Grifters was plain bad. I felt embarrased by it especially with many cast & production members there +a very full house. Films I didn't go see that were new to me I made a point to stream and these were superb! Alias Nick Beal... Hell's Half-Acre... My True Story... Destroyer (Nicole Kidman). Highly recommend these films!
The festival is still barnstorming the nation... Maybe even near to you!
Destroyer is an awesome, very dark film. Nicole Kidman seems reborn through these challenging, harrowing roles she's taking on. Baby Girl - - was that the other one? Almost too gruesome and depraved to watch, especially John Cusack. But Kidman was a marvel in both roles.
I think you'd like both films Carol. She's an epic loser in both roles, though in Destroyer she attains a kind of victory. You know, one of those Pyrrhic Noir victories where you took on some lead and can't make it to the elevator.
Great analysis Carol. Love your opinions on film noir. Another great performance by Carol Stanwyck. She is becoming one of my favorite actresses after seeing the films you have recommended. Thanks for letting us know what films you’ll be doing so I can watch them before your review.
Oh, didn't know that. I'd bet with some cajoling you UK Noir fans could get Eddie to put a festival together. He's really enjoying his role as the Czar of Noir and doing a swell job elaborating this great cinematic movement. I need to order the new edition of Dark City Dames that just came out. His You Tube show put me on to a two volume set called The Dark Page: Books That Inspired American Film Noir by Kevin Johnson. Beautiful coffee-table sized volumes, profusely illustrated, and printed & bound in very high quality editions. You can get them nearly half - off directly from Oak Knoll Press. You will not be disappointed! But Eddie is a great ambassador for this dark fetish we all share. I'll bet with a good cinema signing on, some passionate scholar/fans supporting, and promise of good food & drink - - you'd have Noir City in the UK with Eddie doing the honors!
**Cal STATE university
Clash by Night just played this week on TCM in a string of Stanwyck films. It's better than I remembered! And yeah... That volcanic kiss! But I think you are working a very astute analysis here about the distinction between Noir and Melodrama. A few shadows, moments of crisis, reckless sex, and even lives unraveled do not transform a Melodrama into a Noir. Films like Daisy Kenyon are commonly called Noir (and is even included in the old Fox Film Noir series) but they aren't Noir. The Noir City Festival in Hollywood just opened with Road House (1948) and after an hour I was wondering "When does the Noir start?" Ok, Ida Lupino is a broken-down, Chesterfield-huffing chanteuse, and Richard Widmark does his psychopathic hyena laugh - - but is THAT Noir? As you point out, there are trappings of Noir (cast, director, cameraman) but it's not really the fully-dysphoric stew of doom that is the authentic repast of Noir. It's Campbell's Chicken Noodle and not Canter's Deli Matzoh Ball soup. It's Noir - Light-adjacent-maybe-sorta.
Clash by Night, for me, is not Noir, but you make about as good a case as could be made! It's a tawdry story of mixed-up outcasts making reckless choices - - but once the fever breaks it's just a Melodrama. "Storm Warning" takes place outdoors on fishing boats, and it's a Melodrama, too, but edges into Noir because innocents are dragged into the criminal mind and world, and are deeply compromised, terrorized, & imperiled. Boundaries blur. Souls get lost or nearly lost. It's not just hot, ill-advised adultery, it's incestuous adultery that is involved. Boundaries blur and burn. That's a lot closer to Noir.
I like the implication that Jerry is the real loser in Clash by Night. The truly good guy, frequently taken advantage of by local parasites, who gets slimed by Mae and Earl; as a result his truly latent but slowly -roiling rage explodes. He's the most Noir character and biggest loser in the film! Mae (serial adulterer) and Earl (stanky misogynist) are just horny and disaffected enough to cause trouble,but not Noir-level trouble. Mae's lost years in the big city could have made a great flashback and got us more into Noir territory but as you say, that ain't the story we got. Evocative (as usual) look at Mae and this very engaging film. And yeah... That jungle kiss!
Yeah, I think people like to think that anything that vaguely resembles film noir must be a film noir, whereas a lot of the time, that's not the case. For instance, I consider Night of the Hunter to be a horror movie. Same goes for The Spiral Staircase or Cat People. But both of them are regularly featured in noir articles, discussions etc. The debate about Casablanca is still going strong, even though it is certainly not a film noir. Noir's undefinability (is that a word?) makes it easy for people to make a case for pretty much any film.
P.S. You went to the Noir Festival! I'm so jealous haha one day!
Thanks so much for responding. I got into Noir proper in 1981/82 when it was a class in the film department at Cal Street University Northridge taught by Dr John Schulteiss. He did some work on Abraham Polonsky. But it was very nerdy. There were like 3 books and any articles in film journals had to get copied via microfiche! Schulteiss had his own 16mm collection. He screened Canon City and got Scott Brady to come to the class! It was not a hot topic but gradually became one into to 80s & 90s, as it got highlighted by big directors and there were homages and remakes, etc. Many books came out. Then Neo-Noir became a thing...Festivals were popping up. Film Noir became monetized. So they needed more movies to call "Film Noir" and the term became rather elastic and stretchy... I do think there are costume noirs and western noirs, but many melodramas are not noirs,as we've said. Anyway that's my theory!
The festival was great! I didn't go to a bunch because I've seen them on-screen already and it's 20 bucks per movie + 20 for parking. Plus food. Easy to spend a lot. But I saw opening night with Road House (not a noir), The Last Seduction (Peter Berg + John Dall Q&A!), The Grifters (Annette Bening Q&A!), and Dead Reckoning. The print for Last Seduction was only fair and for The Grifters was plain bad. I felt embarrased by it especially with many cast & production members there +a very full house. Films I didn't go see that were new to me I made a point to stream and these were superb! Alias Nick Beal... Hell's Half-Acre... My True Story... Destroyer (Nicole Kidman). Highly recommend these films!
The festival is still barnstorming the nation... Maybe even near to you!
I live in the UK though! Hopefully they’ll have a UK-based festival, one of these days!
Destroyer is an awesome, very dark film. Nicole Kidman seems reborn through these challenging, harrowing roles she's taking on. Baby Girl - - was that the other one? Almost too gruesome and depraved to watch, especially John Cusack. But Kidman was a marvel in both roles.
Oooh I must watch that one!
I think you'd like both films Carol. She's an epic loser in both roles, though in Destroyer she attains a kind of victory. You know, one of those Pyrrhic Noir victories where you took on some lead and can't make it to the elevator.
California State University at Northridge. Not California "Street" University. LOL! That's a pretty Noir Alma Mater...
Great analysis Carol. Love your opinions on film noir. Another great performance by Carol Stanwyck. She is becoming one of my favorite actresses after seeing the films you have recommended. Thanks for letting us know what films you’ll be doing so I can watch them before your review.